Swell AI Transcript: e654e3d6a270f2782aa4ffd81c577d3e.mp3

00:05 - Deneen L. Garrett: Welcome to another episode of an intimate conversation with women of color. This week's guest is Jennifer Witter. Jennifer has over 30 years in public relations, and we get into the conversation of her earlier years that led to experiences that led to her current situation. So as always, continue to listen. Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't done so. Share. My goal is to reach millions of women of color. And in order to do so, I need your help. And so sit back or keep it moving and get ready for today's episode. I am your host, Deneen L. Garrett. Jennifer welcome to an intimate conversation with women of color, how are you.
01:06 - Jennefer Witter: Oh i'm doing fine Danine How are you doing.

01:10 - Deneen L. Garrett: i'm doing excellent and you know what I have to say I was gonna ask what's the weather like today in New York.

01:16 - Jennefer Witter: Thankfully, it is sunny, the snow is melting it's like a pre taste of spring. I know we had like three or four snow storms in about 10 days and it was so gloomy and it was so gray and it was just like, oh, but now today it's just beautifully sunny and I'm so excited because tomorrow I am scheduled to get my vaccine shot. Yes, and so I just been watching the weather like a hawk and you know so far so good.

01:47 - Deneen L. Garrett: Awesome, yeah, and so what maybe ask is I looked up and I'm looking at my window and in looking at how the snow has melted. Reflecting on how this morning was like 50 degrees and I'm like 50 degrees. Are you kidding me? Let me rush home and turn the heat off.

02:06 - Jennefer Witter: Slap on that bikini and oil.

02:09 - Deneen L. Garrett: No. And so I opened up the back door, um, just to get some, um, fresh air in.

02:14 - Jennefer Witter: So, but yeah, March, you know, some people are like, Oh no March. But the way I look at March is that it's the beginning of spring and daylight savings. We get that hour back. So that is my focus.

02:29 - Deneen L. Garrett: Well, very good. Very good. And so hopefully the weather, you know, remains nice for you tomorrow to go get your shop. And so good for you. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. All right, so let's introduce you to our listeners. So this week's guest is Jennifer Witter. She is the CEO and founder of the Borland Group, Inc. Jennifer is a 30 plus year PR veteran who is very good at getting her clients their unfair share of attention from their target audiences. Jennifer, tell us more about you.

02:59 - Jennefer Witter: Well, you know, thank you for that introduction and Thank you for having me on your program. I've been listening to it and I've been enjoying the episodes. And as for myself, yes, I have been in public relations. I started the Berlin group 18 years ago, which is hard to believe. And, uh, before that I had been in PR in different agencies and I left Ketchum public relations where I headed their high tech, uh, division. And in my first year of doing that, I generated a million dollars worth of revenue. And I decided to go out on my own because I had taken a year off between Ketchum and starting the Borland Group. It was like a sabbatical. And I decided to go back into the work world under my own terms. So with the Borland Group, we focus primarily on minority and women-led companies. And we do everything from social media to media relations to writing press releases, articles, op-eds. And we also are very committed to women because I feel that I've gotten so much that I need to give it back. So in addition to doing the Borland group, I'm very active in my community and I volunteer with a couple of groups. One is Women in Power, which is an organization that works with senior level women and that gets them to the C-suite. And I also serve on the board of the 92nd Street Y, their advisory board, for this award called Extraordinary Women. And basically what it is, it is women who are making social change through their work. I also mentor a lot of women. And then back into the work world, I'm a published author of the little book of Vic Peer, which was published by HarperCollins. And I'm a fairly active public speaker. And I've been speaking now since about 2008. And I have spoken at venues such as the Pentagon, the Brookings Institution, TEDx, and Brown Brothers Harriman, a whole plethora. Again, a lot of them are general business audiences, but there is a nice subset of women-led organizations that I speak to. And the topics that I address Kelsepree is the one that's been the most popular within the past year has been on implicit bias. And because with implicit bias, there has been such a great deal of interest in it. I'm basically self-taught on unconscious bias. So within the past six months, I went back to school. I went to Cornell University for their online class and I got certified in diversity and inclusion. And what I thought was, really wonderful is that everything that I self-taught was validated by the classes that I took. And I also learned a great deal from the classes. And so it was just a wonderful learning experience. And I also speak on topics such as virtual networking, personal branding, thought leadership. So I do a cornucopia of things under the Borland group, but they all are threaded through with giving back sharing knowledge and helping others because I think again, but that's very important that what we have, we give back.

06:35 - Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah. Awesome. That was amazing. So congratulations on your certification. Thank you.

06:41 - Jennefer Witter: Thank you so much. I was excited about it too.

06:44 - Deneen L. Garrett: Right. And then also the validation, right. You know, you mentioned being self-taught, you were already doing the work. Then you go through this program and find out that, yeah, you were on track and now you have, you know, certification, just to say that, you know, you were already doing it. And now you have that certification to add to your resume and to your, your bio.

07:04 - Jennefer Witter: So yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. I mean, you know, I'm a Virgo and we research and we color, you know, sneeze up and do it. And I knew that I was on the right track, but just seeing it from Cornell, it was Just so wonderful to get that, again, that confirmation that what I was sharing was right on point.

07:26 - Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah, and so the first thing that you said, and I'm like, oh, let me write that down. Under my own terms, I love that. I love that. I want to talk a little bit more about that. But before going there, you've already talked about so much of what you're doing, what you're doing for others. The focus is women. You talked about the minorities and whatnot. And so why is it important for women of color to have a platform to use their voices?

07:53 - Jennefer Witter: Who else is going to do it for us? If we don't do it, we can't expect anybody else to lead the flag. I've been working for a long time. I've been working since the early 1980s. So we're talking about 40 plus years give or take. And I have to say that in public relations is a predominantly white industry. And back in the eighties, they didn't have anything like mentoring or networking or personal branding. And in public relations, I was usually one of the only Black executives in the organization. And when I was with my clients, and they were all over the country, I was usually the only Black senior level person in the room. So I think that for women of color, we have to work together to support ourselves. We have to be there for each other. Because while I've been fortunate to have you know, some mentors, most of the ladders that I have climbed have been under my own power. And I look back and I do wish, and it's not with regret, but I do wish there was somebody there who could have given me the time and energy to say, go right instead of going left, or just hearing me out in an objective manner and giving me that advice. So with women of color, We need, like with Minda Hart, with her wonderful book, and I listened to your interview with her. I'm a fan girl too. I had the memo and I was underlining it and everything, that we have a particular set of challenges and obstacles that other women do not. And it's like going to another black woman and saying, you know this, and then having the other woman automatically understand, you know, with my implicit bias trainings, I say, listen to what we have to say, because in the past it was overlooked or discounted. And now it has come out that it wasn't in our mind, that we weren't exaggerating, that the microaggressions being left behind in terms of promotion What our parents always said is that you have to work harder and jump higher just to get noticed. It's all true. And now people are finally beginning to see it, but we can't get lazy. We can't get lax. We have to be there with our elbows and arms tied around each other to make sure that this momentum continues and it doesn't just peter out.

10:39 - Deneen L. Garrett: Absolutely, because this is a time and you know you mentioned the the conversation with Minda and that was part of what we talked about as well right is that this is our time. And we have to stay on top of it right, we have to continue to use our voices, we have to amplify our sisters and you know that's part of how we were connected, so you and I, you know we have a social media. We have a relationship on Twitter before we actually met, which is now. But, you know, that support of one another, right? The retweeting and commenting, and those are the type of things that you can do for one another. That's easy. That's one way of using your voice. And so you talked about the personal branding, you talked about the various topics that you speak on, and again, a lot of your work, which is very impressive. So very, very impressive. But how else are you using your voice for women of color?

11:36 - Jennefer Witter: Well, I try to advocate. As I was saying earlier, is that we don't go farther or further without advocating, throughout the application of others. Yes, I have to make sure that I get my message out because I need to keep the business going. I need to keep generating the revenue. But what I want to do and what I do do is that if I see opportunities within my universe, I will say, hey, Minda, hey, Dineen, here's an opportunity that you can take advantage of. If I see a speaking engagement, I will send it to you and say, hey, fill it out. With the women that I mentor, all, I would say that 90% of them are women of color and we have regular phone calls. And I tell them, I am here for you. You don't have to wait for our scheduled calls. You can call me beforehand if you need to speak to me right away. And all of these women are younger women. And I feel it's important to bring the generation behind me. They're not in their twenties. There's someone in their thirties. Some of them are in their forties, but again, I want to make the road smoother. And if my past experience allows them to have an easier journey, or if my knowledge can help them get moved forward in their professional lives, I am there for them to take what I have. and utilize it in the way that benefits them the best.

13:17 - Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah. And so what's interesting is you said it, and I actually was on a panel earlier and kind of brought it up. The question was asked when we were younger, who were our role models? And I had never considered that before. And at the time they asked the question, I said, well, I don't know that I had role models when I was younger. But looking at how I operate, how I move through life, It's a representative how my dad lived. So my dad was an entrepreneur. And so I have that spirit, you know, and but I didn't, you know, I didn't have any people that I can anybody else I could point to And you kind of just said that. And so it is important, and that's part of why this podcast is so important, is to be able to do that, right? To be able to elevate the voices, to be able to hear from you and to share and to pour, and then to reach those women who don't yet recognize the power of their voices, that they have them. And so thinking about that, and when I say using your voice, that could be speaking. So public speaking, it could be writing, it could be dancing, You know, whatever the expression, I just, you know, for me, it's a catch all as to using your voice as your expression of yourself. So for those women who don't recognize their power, perhaps some of the women, when they first came to you as mentees, what do you tell them? How do you, what is it that you say to them, to pour into them, to help them to recognize that they do have power?

14:47 - Jennefer Witter: A lot of women don't realize just how much power. They have, and we have, and the age that I am is not like I was like this when I was 20, 25 years old. And I have said that, you know, there were some really difficult situations that I was going through in work that kind of beat the enthusiasm out of me, that really flattened me. And at times I'm losing my self-esteem and confidence. And so with finding your voice, what I always say to these women, is that no one will know how great you are until you tell them. Right? Yes. You just can't go around saying, oh, I'm great to myself. You're not going to get very far. But you also have to say it with conviction. You can't like have the body language with the slumped shoulders and speaking like a soft voice. You really have to believe in yourself. The other thing is, is that women, We have a tendency and I speak in broad first statements is that we see what we don't have as opposed to what we do have. And so what we need to do is to look at what we have and build upon it because we will always have the things that we're not good at. Everybody has something they're not good at, but what are you good at and how can you make it unique to yourself? And this is a phrase from Linda Hartz. And she goes, comparison is a theft of joy. So do not compare yourself to another person because this is another saying that I share with the young women. If you compare yourself to other people, you're either higher than they are or lower than they are. You're never on the equal stage. And then the other thing is, is that you have to keep educating yourself. whether it's through a certification program, whether it's through a free course, because knowledge and technology is changing rapidly and you have to stay valid. And so you have to have that educational background that continues to meet the fluidity of the moment. And then last but not least, because I'm a very shy person naturally, and it took me years and years to speak up in meetings and I can't begin to tell you how many people would say, Jennifer, you don't talk in meetings, you don't talk in meetings. And so they go, oh. But your voice has to be heard because if you don't speak, nobody is going to know the great ideas that you have. Nobody is going to know how creative you are. And when you speak in front of a room, you're showcasing your expertise. And you have an opportunity to impress people. You know what, if you make a mistake, so what we all make mistakes. Let me, if I have like a minute, I'm going to tell you a mistake that I made and it was 20 years ago and it still stays with me, obviously. And I was working at Ketchum and I was helping to launch an online travel service. And I was a support person, and the lead was another account executive, et cetera, et cetera. And I was brought in because I had the tech background. And they were there talking with the owner of the service. And in my mind, I kept saying, ask the question, what happens if the website crashes? And I was so hesitant about asking the question because I didn't want to be wrong. Looked at like, why are you asking that question? What a stupid question, you know? Well, I learned a stupid question is a question that is not asked because I never asked it. And the next day when it was the launch, guess what happened? It crashed. It crashed. It crashed.

18:51 - Jennefer Witter: Okay. And I could have been the star. If you didn't answer the question, I could have been the one to ask that question.

19:02 - Jennefer Witter: Are you prepared to work the site if it crashes? I didn't ask, I didn't ask. So don't be me in that fact. Go out there and ask the question. And if you're around professionals, they're not gonna say, oh, Jennifer, that's a stupid question. If they do ask it, then they are stupid people. All right, you go forward and in your confidence, even if you have to fake it, You ask those questions, you are there with the facts, and you will be known as the person who has a forceful, intelligent point of view.

19:43 - Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah, and you know, so the second point that you mentioned about, you know, people seeing what you have. you know, and telling who you are and all of that, you know, the fear of not speaking up and whatnot. It reminded me of the poem. I think it's by Marianne Williamson. And it's, it was the one that was recited in Akilah the Bee. And it was about, and what stood, what really stood out is, it's not that we have a fear of failure, we have a fear of being great. Really? Yes. And that stood with me because I'm like, you know what? You're right. It's not about failing. You know, we've seen that. We know what that looks like. It's, it's what we don't know, which is what does greatness look like?

20:31 - Jennefer Witter: That is so interesting because the way I look at it is that you learn from your mistakes and you have to have a mistake every now and then to learn more. So I think by taking your thinking and my thinking and combining them together, that women will be even stronger with both of these tools, knowing they can make a mistake and they should never, ever fear being great. Because what's wrong with being great?

21:02 - Deneen L. Garrett: Absolutely. Absolutely. And also with that lesson, as far as with that failure, like you didn't ask that question, but you learned. And you're here to tell me about it today. And in telling me, you're telling our listeners, right? But had you not had that experience, you wouldn't have that thing to share. And you wouldn't have that lesson for other people on journeys to say, hey, ask that question that you have. you know, go ahead and do it. And if you fall, okay, get up, you know, learn, like, don't do that again, you know, or do it differently, you know, so that you can keep moving and get on the side of greatness. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. So, um, I've incorporated, um, also to ask about deferred dreams. And I get that from my sister, um, author and poet soul true who wrote deferred dreams and she wrote other, uh, memoirs and, and, um, poetry, but deferred dreams is basically delaying a dream. Was there ever a time that you delayed a dream? And if so, what did you do or how did you handle it?

22:06 - Jennefer Witter: You know, delaying a dream, the, I've been thinking about that. And for me, for most of my life, I've been a workaholic and I worked, worked, worked, worked, worked to the expense of my personal life. And I would say for all people, no matter what age you are, do not put work ahead of your personal life because my deferred dream was to have more of a personal, a fuller, richer life. Now, I'm not playing a tiny violin. I'm certainly not sitting home, betting 10,000. But what I, you know, found that in this age of isolation, I should have been more focused on creating more relationships. And so what I would share with your listeners is, you know, don't put work ahead of anything because work will always be there. It will always be there, but having a good friend and I, treasure my girlfriend hive, that they will be there through six, through sin, through zoom calls and to grow it and to nourish it because work is not the be all and the end all. And when we draw our last breath, we are not going to be thinking about that great email that got us the promotion. We're not going to be thinking it.

23:38 - Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah, absolutely not. And you're so right. I mean, Definitely one thing from COVID is relationships, is that, you know, if you didn't have them, you missed them, you know, you wish that you had. If you have them, you know, you're missing being with the persons, but you can always pick up the phone, Zoom, you know, other FaceTime, whatnot. But yeah, it's very key relationships and And I was actually talking about that earlier and saying that that is key in a lot, just life in general, even in a workplace, it's key to have relationships because I say that it's who you know for sure, but it's also who knows you. And so we've kind of talked about that. And a lot of the points that you've made is about that, right? Is about putting yourself out there so that people get to know you and what you bring to the table, your worth and all of that. So that's powerful. So I'm gonna ask a bonus question and then I wanna go back to this, under my own terms. So the bonus question is, and it's because it's still February, and when your episode publishes on Friday, it will still be February, which is Black History Month, and also when we celebrate it, Valentine's Day. So just thinking about that, Black History Month, who in history epitomizes Black love for you?

24:57 - Jennefer Witter: You know, I'm going to be, very traditional. And what I love about the Obama's surprise is that they have been very honest about their relationship and that they had some really hard times before he ascended to the presidency. And what has held them through is that they were always there for each other. They always worked through their issues and they had each other's back and they became a true partnership. not with a fairy tale and the rose colored glasses, but a love based on a friendship and respect that transcends the color of their skins. But I also think that it's important to have that black love out there because there was so much implicit bias. There was so much incorrect thinking about the structure of black couples, like black women, you know, can't find marriage or dates or anything like that, which is all poppycock. I think that for me, for Black Loves, Michelle and Barack Obama are the epitome of that in a very down-to-earth way.

26:14 - Deneen L. Garrett: Yes. And I agree with you because as a matter of fact, when I kicked it off on LinkedIn, that was the couple. So it was, I see Davis and Ruby, Ruby Davis, as well as the Obamas. And, you know, as you were talking just now, I was thinking, you know how they'd say for women, oh, you know, your standards are high and whatever, we'll try this and try that. And, you know, some women probably shy away from it because they look at it as settling. But I think that maybe a different way of looking at it in a good example are the Obamas because, Michelle was ahead, right? She was the boss. Yeah, she was the boss. He was a primary wage earner for quite a while. Yes, right? For a very long time. I think the differences in where that is a great example is because, yes, however, it was obvious in him that he was going places, right? He had drive. He had goals. So he was working towards something. So I think that in that respect, that's something that is easier to take. than maybe in a situation where it's, yeah, just go and get this person just because. And that's why a lot of women probably shy away from it. But I think if we think about the Obamas and we look at it that way, think about it that way, then absolutely.

27:36 - Jennefer Witter: Yes, yes. Again, it was a very nontraditional marriage for a long time. And she was his boss. He was the intern. He picked her up in that ratty car. With the hole in it.

27:51 - Jennefer Witter: It was just like, well, that's lovely.

28:02 - Jennefer Witter: You know that the struggles that they had to conceive their children, to have their children. And I remember hearing what he said was that when she was holding Sasha in the hospital, that she looked at him seething. because he had been away so often and she felt that she was a single person. That's not what she signed up for. But there was still that friendship based on love and based on mutual respect and a want for the other. So, you know, that's real. And that's what I appreciate. None of this fairy tale. The moment I start hearing, oh, I love you, I love you, and all that on Facebook and whatnot, I'm like, hmm. You know, keep it real. And that's what the tablets are doing.

28:48 - Deneen L. Garrett: So as we begin to wrap up, like I said, I want to kind of go back to under my own terms. And so that is probably going to be the title of our conversation. So talk more about under my own terms as we wrap up.

29:02 - Jennefer Witter: Okay. Well, under my own terms for me, when I had left Ketchum and, you know, I had taken that sabbatical, it was also because I was exhausted. You know, PR is a very hard field. It is not sex in the city, Samantha, where you had cosmopolitans and you woke up at noon. It is a grind. I mean, that wasn't my PR. And it's a grinding, exhausting, stressful field. And when I was thinking about going back into it after my, my year off, I wanted to create a nurturing environment where I liked and respected my clients. I wanted to create an environment where my staff would know that I was always on their side, that they were more important to me than the client. And that I was there for them. And so with the Whirling Group, we call ourselves our work family. And we have been through so many things together. I mean, not just the pandemic, but the great recession. There have been births. We've lost our parents. You know, there have been moves. And we all just get together. Like when my father passed away, I didn't even expect it, all of them, came to his funeral and they sat through the entire ceremony. And that to me was priceless, priceless. So under my own terms meant that I was not going to be pushed around by anyone. I was not going to be given an account where the person was unlikable or I disagreed with the thrust of the account. I would not go into a place of employment and not like my boss or not respect the individual for a lack of talent. It was not going to be internal politics or anything like that. So under my own terms reflects how I wanted to create an environment. Yes, that it's professional. I'm not their parents. I'm not their sister or anything like that. But one where it was a place where they felt comfortable, where they enjoyed the work, where they were challenged and they knew that they were secure. That's what I mean.

31:30 - Deneen L. Garrett: I love that. I love everything about that. And so also saying no a lot, right? Saying no to the things that didn't feed your spirit, right?

31:41 - Jennefer Witter: Yes. Yes. It hasn't been a lot, but I have fired clients because life is too short. Life is just too short. And when I worked at other agencies, you know, I mean, the, I always, for some reason, got the most difficult clients. And it was exhausting, but they would hold onto their clients because of the revenue. And I'm very fortunate that we're in a position where if we needed to say adios, we could. Because of the mental stress that sometimes the money just isn't worth it. And I'll be honest. the, the Borland group, we, we haven't impacted because of the pandemic. And one of the things I always say to entrepreneurs is to have multiple streams of revenue. So we're fortunate in that. And I did sign a client and after three months, I was like, this isn't going to work. This is not going to work. And, um, we, we decide to withdraw from the account and I've never regretted it because there's, there's just too much going on that when you wake up in the middle of the night, thinking about the client and your heart's racing. it's time to say goodbye.

32:54 - Deneen L. Garrett: Absolutely. Absolutely. So like I said, as we're wrapping, I wanted you to talk more about that, but what would you like to leave our listeners with?

33:03 - Jennefer Witter: What I would like to leave your listeners with is that they should not walk alone, that there is always somebody out there who is willing to take the journey with you. And all you have to do is ask, just ask, whether it's professionally or personally, Because what I have always said, if you don't ask, you get 100% of nothing. But if you do ask, you get an opportunity to have 50% of something. And I have asked, and sometimes it's not comfortable, but what has opened up to me has been so wonderful simply because I stepped outside of my comfort zone and made that ask.

33:50 - Deneen L. Garrett: Love it, love it, love it, love it, absolutely. Well, Jennifer Witter, thank you so much for lending your voice to an intimate conversation with women of color. Enjoy the rest of your day.

34:01 - Jennefer Witter: Thank you so much, Deneen, and thank you for allowing me to be on this program. It was a complete joy.

34:07 - Deneen L. Garrett: Thank you. It's my pleasure. Hey, some of you may be like me. I was in search of the perfect platform for my podcast. and stumbled across Anchor by listening to my sister's podcast. If you haven't heard about Anchor, it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me tell you more about it. First of all, it's free. Yes, free. They have creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer. Anchor will also distribute your podcast for you, so you don't have to deal with getting connected to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and many more because Anchor does it for you. You can also make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. Anchor has everything you need to make a podcast in one place. How convenient. Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor.fm to get started. Trust me, you will not be sorry. So an intimate conversation with women of color listeners. What did you think about today's conversation? I really enjoy getting to know Jennifer. As I mentioned, she and I connected on social media, specifically on Twitter. She's definitely a woman who lifts up other sisters. And so after today's conversation, our relationship has just gotten stronger. So that is the beauty and the power of social media, and in particular, this podcast. So thank you for being listeners, for sharing the podcast with other people. I see the growth reaching more and more countries, countries that I never would have thought of anybody listening to the podcast. And then within those countries, some of the cities, you know, small cities, so the reach is out there. And all of that is to say is that whatever it is that you want, go for it. Like I said in my welcome episode, Nike it and just do it. So thank you again for being a listener. Continue to listen. Subscribe if you haven't done so. Share with others. And also, I want to hear from you. So leave a voice message, shout out on social media, or send me an email. Thank you, and until next week.