Grief and Transformation: A WOC Shares Stories of Resilience and Empowerment with Olivia Abousaid

Deneen L. Garrett: 00:02
Hello, hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Women of Color, An Intimate Conversation. And this is another kickback. So last time was my first time after many months. And so we're doing something a little differently. We're just kind of kicking back and just having a conversation and just seeing where things flow. So today's guest is a grief and transformation coach. Her name is Olivia Abu-Said. Olivia, tell us a little bit more about you.. 00:36

Olivia Abousaid: 00:36 Well, firstly, thank you so much for having me, Deneen. I really appreciate it. I'm very excited to be here on your podcast. I admire your work a lot, so thanks. So to tell you a little about me, I'm a grief and transformation coach. And when I first started out, I was just kind of focused on the transformation part of it, but grief kept coming up again and again for me. And I felt like it must be coming up for a reason. So I started to explore that a little more. And I'm part of a community right now that's heavily grieving genocide. And so I really felt like there's a real need out there for this grief coaching when it comes to that, when it comes to so many other things going on right now, both externally and internally in people's lives. So I decided to start incorporating that into part of it. First, the grief coaching, and then the other side of it being the transformation part of it. And grief can even be something like not getting that job that you wanted or not getting that career that you've been working so hard for for so long.. 01:56

Deneen L. Garrett: 01:58 Yeah, and I'm glad you pointed that out because of course, I think many people, when they hear grief, they think of a loss with respect to death. And you're right, grief is a loss, and it's a loss of a number of things, definitely one being a loss of life. And so this month, actually, my sister, in a few days, will honor her passing four years ago. So this whole conversation that we're having is kind of in alignment with that. And so today's title, the title of our conversation is Grief and Transformation, A Woman of Color Shares Stories of Resilience and Empowerment. And that's what we want to focus. We want to focus about around how you overcame, how the people that you're coaching overcame, how they empowered themselves. And then let's bring joy into the conversation. Of course. Yeah. And then before we get into the conversation, I want to thank Santana Ennis because she is who connected us. And, you know, you all go and search for my conversation with Santana and enjoy that. And I'll definitely link it in the show notes. So you are a Palestinian-American born in Dallas, living in L.A. Correct. What are some of the complexities of cultural and political externally externalities you've overcome and which are you currently navigating? You did just mention genocide, but what others are you currently navigating?. 03:34

Olivia Abousaid: 03:35 Well, right, so I had put that in my bio, navigating those cultural externalities, because I grew up, born and raised in Dallas, Texas. It was a great place to grow up in a lot of ways, but there were also, I was 13 during the first Gulf War, and there was a lot of anti-Arab racism going on at the time. And, you know, when I was that young, I just thought of myself as another ethnic American kid. I didn't think of myself as being different than anyone else. And that was really eye opening and saying that, no, you know, people definitely view us as different. And we were getting death threats at our home. It was a scary, isolating time. And that has stayed with me. And there have been other examples of othering and racism that I've experienced over the years. And now it's an interesting time because of what's going on in Palestine right now. There's a lot of, again, we're seeing a lot of anti-Arab racism, a lot of anti-Muslim rhetoric going on, but we're also seeing more support than ever and more awareness than ever of what's going on over there. So it's, Um, it's crazy times, but there is a lot of grief that's going on right now.. 05:07

Deneen L. Garrett: 05:07 Yeah. Yeah. Heavy time. So, so let's get into, um, defining your transformation work. So what led you to the grief and transformation work? Like, was there a specific moment, something, you know, this one thing that's happened and you're like, okay, I need to really focus on this right now.. 05:28

Olivia Abousaid: 05:28 Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, you know, outside of all of that, there has been some grief about career. And I think that's something that a lot of people have experienced when you're heading towards one career. But previous to coaching, I had worked in film pretty much my entire adult life. And I still have a great love for cinema. I'm still a big fan of film. But I and I, you know, I worked on set a lot. And then I worked on the business side of it a lot. And I directed some short films that did end up in festivals and things. But I was never able to kind of achieve that higher level of directing feature films for studios, things like that. And there are very few people who do achieve that level. And so that was something that I've had to come to terms with. I have to remind myself that I still did what I set out to do, which was to direct films for audiences to see. So I did that. But there is you know, that transformation is it's important. It's important to take the time to grieve. And then it's important to realize that you're not broken, that you're not damaged in some way, that you're not. That you shouldn't let it affect your self-esteem in such a way that you think you're a loser or something like that. That it's okay for things to not turn out the way you thought they would. And that's the transformation side of it is that, you know, you can use that grief to take action. You can use that grief and know that you still have agency that you can still do a lot of great things in your life.. 07:19

Deneen L. Garrett: 07:19 Yeah. And, you know, so that is very key and is very pivotal, right? It's being in a job, being in a career, something that you love, and wanting to reach a certain level, and it just doesn't happen for you for whatever reasons. And you have a decision to make. And some people will just continue to try to get there, which is fine if that's what you want to do. And others make a decision, well, you know what? It's time for me to pivot. It's time for me to do something else. which is, you know, that's what you're telling us that you did for yourself. And so through that, you're able to help other people navigate that as well. What has been like the most joyous time that you've had, like with a client working with someone and, you know, they had that aha moment or something that was so pivotal that let you know that you made the right decision by making this transformation?. 08:16

Olivia Abousaid: 08:18 A few weeks ago, I was working with a client who was talking about how they were having trouble in feeling like they hadn't achieved everything that they wanted to achieve. And they were comparing themselves to people a lot. And a lot of that unhappiness was coming from saying, oh, this person's so much further ahead than me. This person seems to be doing so well. And there's a lot of that, I think, where people aren't even aware that they're comparing themselves to other people and how that's affecting their self-esteem and their mental health. And so we talked about that and it was very eye-opening for her. She didn't realize that that was happening. And so it was so satisfying because I think when we find an awareness of something, when we finally become aware of something that's been working at us for so long. And we're allowed to work on that and move on from that. And so it lets me know I'm in the right work, right career. And it makes me so happy. So I'm glad you are talking about the joyful part of it because it really is very satisfying to help people move on from some of these things.. 09:33

Deneen L. Garrett: 09:34 Yeah, because, you know, we can really get stuck there, right? Yeah. You know, like the whole, you know, like being a mouse on a on a wheel or something like that. And it's just we're just doing this and treading and not really getting anywhere. So you mentioned that you acknowledge that you did do what you set out to do. And that's very important. How did you know that? Did you write it down? Did you map out, this is how I want my life to be, and then work to put it in action? How did you approach that?. 10:10

Olivia Abousaid: 10:14 I didn't have a written timeline for things, but I kind of, I had goals that I was hitting and achieving along the way. I got my bachelor's degree in cinema. I came out to California for grad school and got my MFA in film production cinematography. I had been working on sets since 1996, kind of aging myself, but since 1996, and just working at it for so long, I directed short films in both undergrad and grad school. And then outside of those programs, I directed short films. But because I had never, you know, become big and directed those films for the studios for a long time. I felt like I was still failing, like I still wasn't achieving. And I really had to go back. I think a lot of people do this too. A-type personalities like myself, people who are high achievers and very ambitious. We oftentimes don't stop to celebrate the wins and to take joy out of things. We just keep moving and moving. And so I had to take some time with that and say, I haven't failed. You know, yes, I didn't achieve this really high pinnacle that almost nobody achieves, but I haven't failed. I did what I set out to do. I've been in the industry for all these years. A lot of people know me in the industry. And so I've done some things I've achieved and I should take time to be proud of that. And that's something I try to pass on to my clients in that, take some time to celebrate the wins. Don't just keep going and going. Build in some reward system. If you don't wanna make it that formal, at least take that time to celebrate the wins. Because it does affect your self-esteem after a while when you always feel like you're not there yet, you're not there yet, you're not there yet. It becomes this cycle.. 12:28

Deneen L. Garrett: 12:29 Absolutely. And you know what? And celebrate the small wins, right? Don't go for the big ones. Celebrate the small ones. I feel that when you do that, you let the universe know that, OK, I'm appreciative and I'm ready for more. You're welcoming more into your life when you appreciate just any win that you have. And look for the win, right? Sometimes it's not as obvious. You have to take the time and like, oh, that's a win. You know, yeah, journal like, OK, so I have a Facebook group. And on Wednesday, it's like, OK, celebrate your wins. Small, medium, large win. But just to remind people to celebrate, because as you said, we go through life just living. You know, we go through life. OK, now what's that next thing? I need to accomplish this. I need to accomplish that. And we don't pause. We don't take time. We don't take time to breathe. We don't take time to celebrate. We don't take time to just be. We're just constantly going and moving and we miss out on so much. And that's kind of like, so I retired in June of 2022. And, you know, I'm like, and I already had in my mind what I planned to do, but I'm kind of one of those ones who like, okay, always having to do something. So I didn't pause. I didn't take the time to just like, girl, You just finished a 20 plus year career at this company. Like, stop. You don't need anything. Just stop. And so I had to really get myself to the point. It's like, OK, pause. Take time. Get away from social media. Just be. Just enjoy the moment and the time. And so that's something that I had to kind of teach myself, tell myself, and practice. Because when your usage is constantly going and doing, it does take practice to make it a habit.. 14:21

Olivia Abousaid: 14:21 It's so true. And I'm glad you brought that up. And it takes a lot of self-awareness to do that. But I'm glad that you recognize that you needed to take the time to celebrate that. We're so busy a lot of the time that we forget to grieve. We forget to celebrate. We forget joy. We forget just to be in the moment a lot of the time. I know mindfulness is sort of one of those catchphrase words that we hear a lot these days, but there is something to it. There's a reason that we're hearing a lot about it these days, and it's slowing down a little here and there to take the time to do that. I tell my clients to practice gratitude and it doesn't have to be, I think what doesn't work for some people is it being super structured where they have to write down a gratitude list every single day. It starts to feel like homework and it starts to feel like, well, I'm just writing the same stuff every day. So don't do it every day. It doesn't have to be every day. Just make time here and there. Remember to take those moments, pause for a few seconds, write some things down and remind yourself from time to time that, oh, you know, I've got this going for me. I've got that going for me. Or here's likewise on the other side of it. Here's things that are bothering me right now. Here are things that I think I'm grieving right now. You can use it in all sorts of ways in a non-structured way. just taking that time writing or make a little video for yourself or a voice note, whatever works for you to take that time for yourself to work through some things.. 16:12

Deneen L. Garrett: 16:12 Yeah, absolutely. And yes, sometimes It's like a task. And so we know how that is, like, oh my God, here's another thing that I have to do. And then you're like, oh, I don't want to do it. And you take the joy out of doing it because you look at it as a task. You look at it as a have to do. But no, it's about the joy in doing it. And if you're doing something that's not bringing you joy, then rethink that and look at something else.. 16:40

Olivia Abousaid: 16:40 So true, yeah. So not everything we do in life is going to be joyful, but the stuff that we can control, we can try to make as joyful as possible.. 16:50

Deneen L. Garrett: 16:50 Absolutely. Absolutely. And take the time to look for joy. Now, do you find yourself still doing any cinema work? Are you doing anything in film?. 17:00

Olivia Abousaid: 17:03 Here and there, not in a full-time kind of way, but here and there. I went on a vacation recently and I brought a couple gadgets with me so I could shoot some footage and do little video blogs here and there because that is something that brings me joy still, you know. I'm not doing it in a formal way. I'm not. For the past, the last few years in film, I was working on the business side of it and sales and business development. And there was less joy in that because it wasn't as creative. So on my own, I've gone back to making film a hobby for me. and doing that creative stuff, because that is stuff that does bring me joy, the photography and the video and the creative side of it. So I think it's important to retain the aspects of something, even if the career hasn't quite worked the way I wanted it to, is still appreciating the parts that do work for me and that I can take joy from.. 18:06

Deneen L. Garrett: 18:06 Absolutely. And so that's why I brought that up. Like for me, what I was doing really is And what I'm doing today is from that, right? Everything is in alignment. And I was very intentional about that before I left doing what I was doing because I enjoy what I was doing. I happen to be, you know, like in my dream career doing, you know, what I loved and it was time to move on. And so what I was doing, this is just another part of that. It's just another part of the journey that I'm doing on my own that I have control over how I do that. And so the point is, when you do transform, when you do move from one thing to the other, again, everything we're talking about, taking that time, pausing, grieving, all the things, looking for joy, but when you're moving from that one point to something else, you don't have to give it up. It could just be the next level of that thing It doesn't have to be totally like cut it off. I'm not doing anything ever again. No, it doesn't have to be that, you know, and maybe even look at that. Maybe if you're in a situation, maybe you're in that career and you're at that point where you're questioning things, you're like, okay, I'm not getting to the point that, you know, where I want to here. Right. So then start thinking, how can you get to that point? what does that point really look like for you and where else can you get there, right? And it could be you get there on your own. So it doesn't always have to be that you get to that position in the workplace. It could be that you do that on your own, outside of you do it for an organization that you love. There's different ways of doing it and or it is also time like move on and do something maybe totally different, and or it still might keep some of the aspects.. 20:04

Olivia Abousaid: 20:05 Yeah, exactly. It's allowing yourself to change your mind about things. It's allowing yourself to do things in a different way. I think we get so sort of focused in on doing something a certain way that, especially if we've been doing it for years, that we can sometimes forget there are other ways of going about getting that. And we're also allowed to change our minds if something's not working for us or if we don't have the love for it, we thought we would. We're allowed to change our minds about things. And that, you know, I've seen that a lot with my clients where something didn't work out and there is grief there in even though in the end it could end up being a very good thing for them to change their minds or to go a different direction. there's still some grief in that things didn't turn out the way they thought they would. That's, that's a big deal. And so it's, it's taking that time to grieve and also allowing yourself to look at that positive side and that, you know, I'm allowed to change my mind. I'm allowed to do things differently. I'm allowed to explore other possibilities, other choices, and that's all okay.. 21:26

Deneen L. Garrett: 21:27 Absolutely. And the thing, too, is it's not all on us when we're working with other people, especially, you know, if there's a hierarchy, it's up to that person. Well, you know, whether or not they advance you. So sometimes it's just nothing that you can do. And that's, you know, so you just have to realize that and then do what you need to do for yourself. It's not always that you didn't. You know, you talked about failing, you know, feeling like you failed, et cetera. It's often not that. It's just that for whatever reason, that person has something else in mind. Right. And they're not. However, we want to frame it, but they're not necessarily interested in moving you along. Right. So we have to come to terms with that as well. Like there are external factors. And so you have to make a decision. What do I want to put my energy in? Do I want to put my energy and continue to just force this situation here? Do I want to put that energy into you know, making moves and doing other things. So we're talking about being resilient. We're also talking about empowering ourselves. And so those are the conversations that you're having with your clients about them being resilient and making their changes, their transformations, overcoming grief, and then them empowering themselves to do something differently.. 22:44

Olivia Abousaid: 22:45 Yes. Yeah, very much so. Very much. A lot of the clients I get are very career focused people. A lot of what they want to talk about is their jobs and careers. And some of them have struggled with that where they've constantly been passed up for promotion or they know they're very qualified but can't seem to get that dream job. And I've experienced it myself where I kept getting passed up again and again for promotions that I knew I was very qualified for. But for, you know, various reasons, they went with somebody else. And like you said, it is important to take that time to say, is this working for me? What do I need to change? At that time, I didn't have the training and some of the language that I have now. And I was so wound up about it. I thought, well, I'll just work harder and harder and harder and then they'll see. And that never happened. It never happened. And I think we women do that a lot, especially, you know, if I just work hard, they'll see. That's not always how it works in the workplace. There's office politics and relationships and certain things like, you know, from time to time being a woman or being a woman of color can work against you in the workplace. Let's just be honest about that. And so let's make our own opportunities. You know, let's find things that do work for us.. 24:17

Deneen L. Garrett: 24:18 I'm huge on that and, as a matter of fact, a couple Saturdays ago I moderated a panel and we were talking about having your seat at the table and something that I share with them I had heard on a podcast several years before and was you know comparing men and women and it was saying how. Like with women, if they're in a job, and even if they're going for a job, it's like, OK, there's 10 different things that I have to do in this job. And so we're going to do all 10 things. Well, the man is going to go to the decision maker and say, hey, which three are you concerned about? And those are the only three that they're going to focus on. And guess what? That person is going to advance. Whereas the women, they're still doing all 10. So my thing is, find out from the decision maker, what do they care about, and focus on that. That's if you're interested in being advanced. You need to find out from the person who can advance you what it is that they want from you, and then put in the work to make that happen. Now, granted, it still may not happen because of politics, whatever, maybe bigotism, et cetera. But when you go and have that conversation to say, what are you really looking for? And you put, you know, when you put your energy in it, you're more likely to get it than not. Right. And so it is it just depends on what you want out of a situation. So like, you know, my last year, year and a half, I was very intentional because I knew I was leaving. And so I say I played chess versus checkers. And it was like everything that I did was about what I planned to do afterwards. So if it didn't align, then I wasn't doing it. I didn't have a plan for it. Before I was that type of person, I'm sure I'll do this. I'll do everything. And I was that one who was like, well, wait a minute. I just did all 10 of these things, 15. And what's happening? And so I would tell people, I said, you have to decide what you want. If your goal is to get promoted, then you need to find out from the person who can promote you what they want from you, what they need from you. If your goal is something else, then you say yes to everything that's going to get you closer to whatever your goal is. But it starts with knowing what it is that you want out of life. And that's key. And I'm sure you're having those conversations. But having them take time to find out what do you want And then what's going to get you there. And that's what you focus on.. 26:46

Olivia Abousaid: 26:46 So many good points there, Danine. I mean, really, there's assertiveness, there's being proactive. I mean, like I was saying, a lot of the time we think I'll just work harder and then keep spinning our wheels. And we don't think to do some of these things, even though we're so well-intentioned, we're hardworking, we're intelligent, but That's such a big part of it is that assertiveness and that being intentional and that being proactive and knowing how to speak up for yourself. And then also knowing if it's not happening in this situation, what do I need to do to make it happen for me in another situation? Is it time to change situations? And so all of that comes into play. Absolutely.. 27:39

Deneen L. Garrett: 27:39 Great points. And I was having a conversation the other day with a friend, and so she's in a role, and she is interested in moving to the next level. And she's like, well, I don't want to go to this specific point just yet. I'm not ready for it. And I said, well, wait, let's really peel that back. Is it that you don't want it right now? Because I want you to be clear. And again, coming up with that conversation as far as often women, if I can't check all the boxes, I'm not going to go for something. You don't need to check all the boxes. Do you want it? If you want it, then you will figure out and make it happen. And so that's really the conversation. Do you want this thing? And she was like, no, I don't want it right now. I'm like, OK, cool. I support that. But if it was something else, if you're like, oh, well, I don't think I could. No, no, no, no, no. Do you want it? because that desire will help you to move mountains.. 28:41

Olivia Abousaid: 28:41 Yeah, that's a great question to ask to get to the heart of, and that's something I do with my clients as well, is you gotta get to the heart of what's working at them, what's really going on. Something that we learn in coaching very early on that stays with me in every single session is coach the person, not the problem. You can tell people go make a list or get a planner and whatever. And these are little things that will help them. But when you actually delve deep into the person and what do they really want, what's working at them, what are their aspirations, then that's really when you can start helping people a lot. And it sounds like you're doing that too. And that it's really great. And that's what is so satisfying about this work. One thing I wanted to bring up is that, you know, these changes aren't linear, just like everything in life. It's not linear, you know, you'll have moments of grief, you'll have moments of joy. It'll be more of an up and down kind of thing, you know, still heading upwards, but up and down for a while, you'll still have to take moments to question like, is this what I want? Am I on the right track? Am I experiencing any grief right now? Do I need to deal with that? And it's okay for that stuff to come back to you and to have to take time out here and there to deal with it. It's never like, okay, I'm done with that grief, now moving on. As you know, I'm sure as someone who has lost someone close to you, the grief stays with you. And that's true of a lot of things in life, whether it be the job, or bearing witness to genocide or losing someone close to you. Grief has a way of staying with you. And so it's important that we kind of deal with that as we go along and know that it's okay if it's not linear. It doesn't mean we failed or that we're heading backwards. It's just part of the process in becoming more self-actualized and getting to where we want to be and getting to those goals that we've set for ourselves. And it's also okay for those goals to change.. 31:00

Deneen L. Garrett: 31:00 Yes. And that's exactly what I was going to bring up. It is absolutely OK for it to change because it changed for me. Right. You know, I had in my mind what I was going to do when I, you know, retired and other people are like, oh, you should do this. You should do that. And sometimes you get caught up in like, OK, cool. And you add that, you know, and then you sit back and you're like, you know, I really don't want to do that. And then you found yourself like me. I spent months like focus on doing some of those things that I turned around and like, I really don't want to do these things. And that's because I didn't take the time. I didn't pause. I just said, oh, I want to. And so it's OK. You can change your mind. Your goals can change. All of that is fine. It's just to always do what it is that you want. But take the time to figure it out what it is that you want. So I created, I call my three plus D's, which is to dream, to then decide. design and then drive towards that dream life that you want for yourself. So right now, before we wrap, name three things that bring you joy, like just absolute joy.. 32:11

Olivia Abousaid: 32:15 travel. Yes. I really like travel. That's a big one for me, especially living in a crazy place like Los Angeles. It's good to get away sometimes. And I love learning about new cultures, new languages. I especially love like Europe because you've got all this beautiful architecture everywhere. And I love the art and the architecture and all of that. It's very like, spiritual for me, very spiritually fulfilling for me. So I love travel. I think another one, my cats bring me a lot of joy. I am a cat lady, self-admitted, and I love them. They're my children and they bring me a lot of joy, unconditional love. Sometimes it's hard to understand people, but I do understand animals and that's great. And I think the arts, just in general, the arts, that again is very spiritually fulfilling to me. Going to see a symphony, like a symphony warming up, an orchestra warming up is one of my favorite sounds in the world. I love the arts. I love classical music. Lots of other types of music. I love going to museum. I'm one of those slow museum goers where I'll stop and read all the captions and my friends will be racing ahead of me. But I love going to museums. Recently in Portugal, we went to a coach museum where they had all these coaches, carriages from the royalty and aristocracy back in the 17th and the 18th, 19th centuries. And that was so interesting to me. Not all people are into that kind of thing, but I thought it was really cool. And if I could add one more thing, this career working with clients brings me joy because I just knowing you're making a difference in people's lives and that you're helping them along their journey and that you can bring them to a place of joy. You can help them along in either furthering careers or getting through grief or whatever it may be that their goals are. That's so satisfying to me. And it's been a while since I've felt that satisfied in a job. So that also brings me a lot of joy. That was four. Sorry.. 34:51

Deneen L. Garrett: 34:51 I mean, if it's five, that's fine as well. I love all of that. And we have so many similarities. Like I said, travel is number one for me. And going to Europe is so cool that you can hop on a train and go to numerous other countries. Right. I actually was there in March and I visited three countries. And so I'm like, oh, my God, I feel so European. Like, yeah, I want to train and go. It's great. Right. Absolutely. Love it. All right. So before we wrap, what would you like to leave the audience with?. 35:23

Olivia Abousaid: 35:26 Just to know that whatever they're going through to search out community and to search out help. You don't have to feel isolated and you don't have to feel like you're doing it alone. A lot of the times we can get that way when we're going through something or when something's difficult for us, just remember you are not alone. Look for your community and look for help, whether it's through a licensed therapist or counselor, whether it's through a coach, talking to a friend or a family member, just search out that connection and that community. It's so important. And if they wanna visit my website, they can. Do you mind if I, Absolutely. Okay. Um, my website is packed hyphen coaching.com. So, um, if people want to learn more, they can go to my website, book a free 60 minute session, um, and see if we're a fit for one another.. 36:26

Deneen L. Garrett: 36:27 Yeah, and that will also be in the show notes. So Olivia Abu Sayyid, thank you so much for lending your voice on women of color and intimate conversation to kick back. Thank you. Thank you. And enjoy the rest of your day.. 36:40

Olivia Abousaid: 36:40 Thank you so much, Deneen. I really appreciated it. You're welcome.. 36:43