Breaking the Glass Vase: A Story of Transformation and Empowerment with Dima Ghawi

Deneen L Garrett:00:02 00:23 Hey hey hey everybody we're back women of color and intimate conversation and i'm excited for today's conversation, I am speaking today with Dima Gawi. She is a keynote speaker leadership consultant and author Dima tell us more about you.
Dima Ghawi:00:24 01:28 Hi. Hello, everyone. I am, I always say I'm Middle Eastern in my genes, American in my heart and a global citizen in my spirit. Okay. I believe that summarizes everything. I was born in Turkey, raised in Jordan, and I moved to the US when I was 20. And I just fell in love with American culture, with meeting people that are different than me, all the beautiful different ethnicities and religions and all of this that gives a lot of richness to life. But then I realized how much I am in love with humanity in general, as I traveled around the world and lived around the world. I believe that we're all humans, like global citizens, all of us. If we start forgetting about the borders that divide us and see ourselves that we all want to have a healthy life and have dreams and live in peace, we're all global citizens. So that summarizes who I am.

Deneen L Garrett:01:28 01:55 That's beautiful. I love that. So Turkey, I don't have a list per se, but we'll say my mental list. I definitely want to visit and I Cappadocia, Turkey. Okay. I want to visit there. I've seen, you know, pictures. I've seen some movies that were based there. Absolutely beautiful. And then they have the hot air balloon. So I, that's on my list.

Dima Ghawi:01:55 01:59 I'm thinking of going next year. So we'll go together.

Deneen L Garrett:02:02 02:57 I love it love it you know as global citizens right we're we're traveling the world and, and that is something that I do so travel for me is like number one of how I live my dream lifestyle. And so this year, I'm focused on more international travel. So yes, yes, yes. So today, I want to really talk about why advancing individuals in leadership is important. So that's going to be the title of our conversation and what I want to talk around. I definitely want to hear about your TEDx experience. TEDx is something that is also on my mental list, if you will. Those are the main things that I really want us to spend some time on and then we'll get to the other stuff time permitting. So let's talk about the advancing individuals in leadership.

Dima Ghawi:02:57 04:24 Yeah. So whenever I think about advancing individuals in leadership, the main thing that comes to my mind is how much we need good leaders. The world is hungry for good leaders whether in corporations, in the community, in governments. Imagine if we start having leaders that are self-aware that are passionate about doing the right thing, how our world would become a better place for all of us. So that's why I'm passionate about it. I believe it has to start with self-discovery. We need to know who we are, and also we need to know why we want to be in leadership. A lot of people I interact with, they want to be in leadership because it's the right next step for them to get a promotion. or to get a raise, but do they really believe in it? Do they care about the people they're working with? Are they working on uplifting their team? A lot of times they don't. So that's why this topic I believe is very important, especially with a world we're living in right now that has a lot of changes happening. We're living through major shift. And in order to be successful, we need leaders that care, leaders that are qualified to do what they're doing, and ones that have a vision to help their team come along. And that's a big part of my purpose.

Deneen L Garrett:04:24 06:00 Yeah, and you know what? So this seems to be a common theme, because it was part of the conversation that I was having yesterday with Dede Cummings. She and I had our conversation, and her episode actually will premiere on Monday. We were talking about this. We were talking about, And what you said is so key that people need to be passionate about leadership about doing this this thing called leadership and if you're not passionate about things that you're doing you probably shouldn't do it. And I said, specifically for me, it was diversity and inclusion. So I come from that. I spent over five years in corporate D&I, and I saw people who were just in it for the reasons that you mentioned, for that next step, promotion, increase in pay, and et cetera. They weren't really concerned about the work. Yeah. Same thing with education. There are people who are teachers and care nothing about kids, care nothing about educating them. It's a job. And then with Deedee, she went to law school, became an attorney, and she wasn't feeling it. And so I love that she recognized that and she pivoted. Right. She recognized that, oh, you know what, this is not what I thought or I don't want to do this. So let me do something else. And so I really highly, you know, respect that she made that decision. So when you're talking about individuals and leadership, and you mentioned whether it's in corporate, you know, not in corporate, let's talk about what is a leader. So how are you defining a leader?

Dima Ghawi:06:02 06:57 So, wow, that's such a great question, right? Because many times we use the word and we need to go to the basics. The first thing that came to my mind is a person who is visionary, a team excited to walk on the same journey with them. to create a better place for everybody. That's that's how I see it. So somebody it's a leader he had this person not he it's funny my unconscious bias. It just popped up. Well, yeah, but it's funny when we catch it to a leader that is that has a vision and they're bringing their team along and this person sometimes walks ahead of them to bring them along, but sometimes this leader needs to walk with them side by side, or even walk behind them to make sure that the team is moving forward. At least that is the way I see it.

Deneen L Garrett:06:57 07:48 Yeah, and you know what? In full agreement, especially the visionary part, and definitely the walking in front, beside, and behind. It takes all of that, right? Because when you're leading people, people are different. And so it takes different things, right? And as part of being a leader, you need to know what they need and what each individual needs. So also, being a leader with, let's say, no title, what does that look like? How can a person, because we're talking to women of color and we want women of color, those who are watching, We want folks to know that you don't need a title to be a leader. You can lead from wherever you are, doing whatever it is that you're doing. So what would you say about that?

Dima Ghawi:07:48 09:07 OK, so here's what came to my mind. Yes, we are all leaders regardless what we're doing. Whether we are the top of the chain or we're early in our career, we shouldn't let the title stop us from having this vision, from influencing others, from being a great team member, and contributing but there is a whole side to the to this question as well where we cannot just keep programming ourselves like we we we're okay not to have a title no as women of color we want to have the title if the title is giving us influence giving us power giving us yeah like yes Hallelujah. Yes, we should not let the title stop us, but also we need to start thinking about what are these limitations that are stopping us from getting these titles, especially in the world we're living in right now. where a lot of people, they they the title is giving them still prestige or giving them people listen to them because of the title. So then we need if that is part of the equation to influence, then we need to add it to our list.

Deneen L Garrett:09:07 10:09 Yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you for saying that, because you're absolutely right. So for me, in addition to, you know, hosting the podcast, this YouTube channel, I'm also an emerging art curator. And so I live in Detroit, and our main museum is the Detroit Institute of Art. So I signed up to be in gallery services, gallery information, or something. And I did that for exactly what you just said, for that influence, for that, we'll even say credibility, et cetera, to be able to add that, to say, hey, and I do this thing at this particular place. Right, so kind of let's talk a little bit more about that, about do we always need to have those things or is it more so, like you said, what are your goals? What are you wanting to do? If you're wanting to influence, absolutely, you need that title, you need that, those credentials, etc. Let's talk a little bit more about that.

Dima Ghawi:10:11 11:44 yeah so you're doing it sounds like just from the way you're expressing what what you're doing with the art you're passionate about it you're it's adding it's giving you purpose and meaning and all of these things and that's why that's why a lot of us or all of us we need to ask ourselves what is what is igniting the fire in us and then go and become an expert in this field lead in this field, volunteer in that field. The challenge is many of us were just either we put ourselves down and we say, well, but I don't have the experience. I'm not good enough. Or maybe the society we're living in right now. is telling us like whether with words or not like you don't fit in this is male dominated environment or everybody there doesn't look like us be the first it's okay be the first and but it's i think it goes back to the step number one is understanding what what are you passionate about and go and and do something in that field that you're passionate about maybe you you you're starting early And you're just building your network and all of this and that's okay. It's just the thing is when we're doing things like this, it's not just helping our life to be better and building our leadership and influence. Imagine all of these other young women of color. that are going to see us and they're like, she did it, I can do it too. And that's a big deal, right? Representation matters.

Deneen L Garrett:11:44 12:38 Oh, definitely. I wholeheartedly agree with that. And I want to thank you for giving us, for giving me permission to go after those titles. Absolutely, we deserve to have them. Because when you think about it, we are doing the work. We're doing all of the things and we do not always have the title or everything that comes along with it. But we are always doing the work. So thank you, Dima, for giving me and us permission to go after, grab those titles, demand those titles, all the things, right? Because we definitely deserve it. Yes. So TEDx, I read that you've been on the TEDx stage multiple times. So tell us a little bit about how you got there and either is your first time or the most memorable time. Share that with us.

Dima Ghawi:12:38 16:42 Yeah, I believe in vision boards and I always always loved TEDx and TED Talks always. So one time I was putting together a vision board and I added it there. And then years later, I moved to Louisiana and I discovered that they have a TEDx event. So I wrote in my notebook, oh, I have I have to attend. One day I was talking to a friend and she told me that she was volunteering in that event. So I said, I want to be a volunteer, too. So she connected me with a person who coordinates with the volunteers. But then when I met with this person, something in my heart just kept telling me, don't ask to be a volunteer, ask to be a speaker. It's just my intuition was yelling, was screaming at me to ask to be a speaker. So this woman was meeting with me mainly for me to be a volunteer because that's what I initially indicated interest in. But then all I was talking about was speaker. I want to be a speaker. I want to be a speaker. So she got confused. Yeah. She said, well, I'll connect you with the person who who coordinates with the speakers. And I had a phone call with him for about an hour. And then after that, he said, OK, you want to be a speaker? You are a speaker. So with this story, when I look back, it's like, how important for us to have a vision and write it out, put it on a vision board. Even if it feels unachievable, then the universe, all of this, will Make something work. The second thing is to listen to our intuition, like our heart, our spirit knows what we want. So listen to your intuition, even though it is terrifying. Like I was so afraid of public speaking. Now I'm in a better place. But at that time, I used to cry for over a week before. I gave a talk and here I am wanting to be on a TEDx stage. So listen to your intuition and then realize that there will always be fear, but just do it, just do it. Things will come, things will happen. People will start showing up to help us on our journey. So that was the first, but also initially I wanted to talk about leadership in general, leading teams across cultures, And I got approval by the TEDx organizers for that. But then in my heart, it didn't feel that it's the right topic. So then I changed the topic and I decided to talk about body language across cultures. And after it got approved, I just didn't feel is the right one. So then I said, okay, I'm going to talk about the personal transformation of a leader. And my friend said, you need to tell part of your story. And I'm like, no, no, I'm not telling my story. I have like a deep painful background. I said, no, no, I'm not doing that. So she was amazing. And she kept pushing me. It's like, no, tell your story. Tell your story. So initially, I wanted to talk about it for a few minutes. And it ended up being the full tech talk. Because I shared my story, more people started reaching out. And then after a year, I ended up quitting my job, my corporate job, and starting my business. And the foundation of the business is the story. Um, I ended up publishing my book and it got so many awards and now we're working on, I'm working with two producers. We're in the early phases of turning it into a movie. So, um, yeah, it is, it all started with a vision board. It all started by listening to my heart and realizing that there's going to be limitations externally. like people telling me you shouldn't, or you should, or all of this, but also the internal, like, oh, I'm not good enough. I'm going to embarrass myself. I'm going to be judged. Listen to this and just do it. Just do it.

Deneen L Garrett:16:42 18:41 You know what? I love all of this. I took a lot of notes because it resonates so much with the dream lifestyle. So I created a framework around how to live a dream lifestyle. So the first part of it is just dream. Just think. Go beyond. No limitations. Dream big. Dream, dream, dream, dream, dream. then decide what you want that lifestyle to look like, and then design. So the designing phase, that's where we do vision boards, that's where we're journaling, we're doing all those particular things because now it's time to, you know, create that framework. that blueprint, et cetera. So I was lighting up over here when you were saying all the things that you were saying. So your experience with TEDx, and I want our audience to really get this. You started with that vision. So you had that dream. And then you, you know, and we're just gonna go ahead and say that in between, you know, you decided, like, I want TEDx, right? And then you designed it. Okay, well, how, what does this look like, you know? How do I make it happen? And then starting with the execution, the drive is the volunteer. So you put yourself in the place. Yes. That's key. You were there. You were at the table. You were in the room. You put yourself there. Now, mind you, yes, you went there, you know, I'm going to volunteer. But no, you got the attention. It's like, oh, no, really what I want to do is speak. So you ask for what you wanted. Right. And that's key and critical as well. And you got it. Bottom line, you got it. And then from there, so that one TEDx, in essence, was that foundation that launched your business, what you're doing now. The storytelling is key. You being authentic is key, and it's the key to your success, right? And it's catapulting you now into a movie, just going from TEDx.

Dima Ghawi:18:43 20:59 and that resulted in two more TEDx after it as well because I had a magazine that had a feature about me and that somehow an organizer of a TEDx in Spring Hill College saw it and they reached out so that resulted in a second one when I wrote my book somebody in Jordan discovered about my book and they reached out and they had me do a virtual TEDx. I cannot go to Jordan because I have death threats and that's part of the story that I'm dealing with. but I did it virtually. But you know, the other element that is important for us to mention to the audience, it takes time. It's easy for us to get discouraged. So the story, like everything you heard right now, took over 10 years, even, oh my goodness, more than 10 years. Like from the moment I made the vision board, Most likely it's been 15 years ago. So it's easy for me to look at the vision board a year later and say, you see, it doesn't work. but it does take time because as a person, I had to grow during that time, be prepared. So whenever an opportunity opened up, if it happened the day I made the vision board, I wasn't ready. So just keep that in mind. Like even I use the image of a dough, like the dough rising, you mix the dough, it rises. it requires time for it to rise. And the same thing, we need the ingredients, which is self-awareness, the right community, the vision, the building ourselves. Those are the ingredients, the beautiful ingredients that are making the dough. But the main element after that is we need to give it time. and the time for all these things to come together and to rise. So when the opportunity comes, you're already developed as a person. And I know myself, I'm not a patient person. I drive myself crazy. I want things to happen fast, but I think that's part of our evolution as people to realize you do your part and you just know, you believe that it will come together eventually.

Deneen L Garrett:20:59 22:14 Yeah, absolutely. So definitely the time, right, to be patient with the process, right? It's a process. It takes time. And then also the fear, the fear would definitely creep up and just do it anyway, which is kind of like what I experienced when I launched my podcast four plus years ago. You know, initially I was like, oh, I wanted to do it. I had wanted to do it for several months. And then when it came time, I felt it needed to look a certain way. I felt that it had to be perfect in order for me to move forward. And then when I realized that, what I was experiences of fear of vulnerability, then I went ahead and just did it, right? I'd Nike did and went ahead and launched a podcast. And so you're right, you know, you have to just sometimes just do it, build the plane as you fly, all of those things come into play. So right now we've been talking about empowering women of color. So your example, your TEDx example is definitely motivation and encouragement to empower women of color. So I want to ask, when you put together your vision board, what of the experience, what are the things that you just mentioned to us was not on the board?

Dima Ghawi:22:14 22:20 Wow.

Deneen L Garrett:22:20 22:22 So like for an example, was the book on the board?

Dima Ghawi:22:23 23:58 no okay i never imagined i'm so grateful you're helping me because now wow um no the book was not on the board and do you know why because i always believed that i'm a bad writer and i never ever ever imagined Even though I, in my heart, I want it, but my brain, so there was a struggle. My heart wanted the book, but my brain was like, you're a bad writer, you're a bad writer, you're a bad writer. But it's interesting how when I was able to achieve these other things, like the speaking and building my business, somehow I started realizing if I can do this I can do the book too and then I have a community so I started having my friends helping me edit I started hiring people to help me and that is something we need to realize we don't need to do everything if we are able to do what we're passionate about and bring so bring an intern bring a family member a friend to help us to fill the gaps and that's when you can do it. But yeah, I'm so thankful you mentioned the book because yeah, the book was not on the vision board. Now when I remember the vision board, it had the TEDx, it had the speaking. So I remember having a speaker that I admire and she was in front of a stage and I'm like, oh, I wanna be like her. It had like something related to community because it's important for me to be part of communities but not the book, wow, yeah.

Deneen L Garrett:23:58 26:12 Yeah, and so I asked that because I want people to know as well that some things are not on your vision board, some things you haven't thought about, which is fine, but because you said yes to that one thing, to that first thing, because you dreamed it, and then you started putting in the work to make it happen, all these other things come about. And so what I've called that for myself in the past is catch up to the vision. I've had those catch up to the vision moments where someone says to me something, right? And so then it's up to me what I do with that. So I look at it as people seeing around the corner. I don't see around the corner yet. Like they're already there. So they see what, you know, something for me and then they're speaking it to me and it's up to me what I do with that. And I hadn't thought about catch up to the vision. probably in a couple of years. And recently people have mentioned it to me because they've read something on my website or somewhere they come across it. And so I'm back now to being aware of catching up to the vision. And then what you're talking about, you know, it's like a catching up to the vision because, again, people saw something and they spoke to you and they even helped you to make it happen. And it's so interesting you say that specifically around a book, because my friend Tony, who I have lots of catch up to the vision conversations with her. She's always seen things for me and with the book, with a book. And she says, well, you know what, you can always, what I said to her is I would need someone following me around to capture what I'm doing. Right. Because I'm in motion, like I'm doing things. And, you know, when things come naturally for us, we're not thinking about them. We just do them. and don't really think about, well, how did that thing get done or anything like that? And so she was like, well, yeah, there are people that can do that. They can go, because I do chronicle so much of my life on social media. I'm like, yeah, I need that person to come through my social media, follow me around or whatever, and then speak, have conversations and ask questions in order to write a book. And so point is, it's possible. There's people out there that can do all of that.

Dima Ghawi:26:13 26:39 yes yes and it is to realize we cannot do everything so that goes back to your point there are people we need we need to bring experts and sometimes i know we cannot afford it i i so that's why we need to exchange services so i will help you with this this is my strength you help me with something and i love that you know it is it's continuing to build our community

Deneen L Garrett:26:39 26:52 Absolutely. And again, someone had just texted me before we got on to say, hey, I need help with this thing. And I know you're doing that. So let's exchange services.

Dima Ghawi:26:52 28:14 Wow. So this session is more like our discussion is a summary of all the cool things that are happening in your world. Right. I love it. I love it. When we hear the same messages over and over, it is a sign that this is like the mindset that we need to build. We cannot stay the way we were in the past. When we think about the past, when we think about like our parents and the grandparents and all of this, limitations society keeping them small they were told they're not good enough they were told that they're less smart than other people they were not given opportunities they were not maybe even allowed to go to to get educated and it has to stop in our generation like no more no more we're changing that and when we change that we're influencing the next generation to realize that they have the right to have a good life they have a right to have a vision they have a right to to to drive a positive, to continue to create something bigger than them. But we are in between these two things, the past and the future. And I don't want the next generation to be like my past generation. I don't want the future generations to be like the past. I want to drive a positive change in my life to give them permission to create a better life for them.

Deneen L Garrett:28:14 28:55 Absolutely, definitely, definitely. And I look at often things that we would have like, oh, you probably shouldn't do this or think this, think that. And I'm like, no, absolutely not. Whatever they think, and that's what they go for, hey, I'm all for it. Do your thing. So we're doing all this work. We're on TEDx. We're speaking, keynote speaking. we're consulting people on leadership, et cetera, we're in motion. We need to pause. So let's talk about the power in the pause. What comes to mind when I say that?

Dima Ghawi:28:55 31:17 You want to make me cry. It is something that I continue to hope to learn to do. I've worked myself so hard in the past to a point that I ended in the hospital. I've worked so hard. And that was like when I was working for IBM and other companies, I overworked myself and ended in like the, in addition to the hospital, like urgent care, multiple times measuring my heart because I was having all of these feelings. When I look back, I realized I was trying to continue to prove myself. In a world that maybe did not see my value. And I was also always afraid of losing my job. So as a result, I was okay to do two or three or four people's jobs, just in order to be able to pay my bills. Yeah. Now when I look at all of these things, I realize it has to change we can be creative if we are not if we're not giving ourselves time we cannot have a true vision or listen to our intuition if we are always in a reactive mode so i have to share that it is this is part of my life journey right now to continue to learn um to to pause and to reflect and to journal and to meditate and go take a long walks um it's not it's not something i'm an expert in but now we're hearing a lot of mental well-being and mental health and there's a reason why because whatever we has been done in the past has not served us absolutely not served us as well so now it is a matter of Like we hear about work-life balance all the time. Please send me one person who achieved that. If you send me one person, I'll give them $100 if somebody achieved the work-life balance. It's not. It's not. We have all of these demands. And as if it is part of the system we live in or it's designed this way so we would not truly have the balance and to reflect on what is the world we want to create. So just like you're learning, I'm learning it. And this is something I aspire to just slow down and to reflect on what is next.

Deneen L Garrett:31:17 32:33 Absolutely. And that's the key. I mean, it's taking baby steps for most people. Because as you said, we're constantly seeing about mental well-being, about self-care, et cetera. And we're seeing all those things because people are not doing it. You know, they're not. And so that's why we keep seeing it as a reminder, like, do this, like, take your vacation, like, get away, like, you know, unplug all those different things. Yes. So absolutely, the power in a pause. And we need to just listen to different people and hear from them. Well, how are you taking a break? How are you pausing? Because, you know, self-care, looks differently for different people, or there's so many different ways that you can self-care, and it's not always just going to get a massage or a facial or anything, you know, it's also journaling. It's also saying no to things. It's also taking a pause from social media. So those are all the things. So in our last few minutes, what would you like to talk about? What would you like the audience to hear either a dream deferred, how you're living a dream lifestyle, which sounds like you are, you know, what do you want to let the people sit with them?

Dima Ghawi:32:34 35:15 Yeah, I want to share a story. And this is my story that I'm hoping that they would get something out of it to help them in their journey. When I was five years old, I was in my grandmother's home in Jordan in the Middle East. And she was like an amazing woman and always playing games with me. But that specific day she was serious and she got a glass vase. We were arranging flowers in that glass vase and she looked at me in a serious way and said, do you see this perfect glass vase? A girl is just like it. If it gets cracked for any reason, you can never fix it. You can never glue it back. No one would want it. And that's the one we throw in the trash. Imagine telling this I was five years old, right? Oh, it's the story of being you having to be perfect. Otherwise, you're not accepted. You have to follow and obey. Otherwise, you are going to be thrown in the trash. And I left as the perfect glass vase. of following, obeying, doing everything as I was taught, got married so young, ended up being in an abusive marriage. But I did everything as was expected of me. I lost myself. I was depressed. I did not grow as a person until I get to a point where I realized I have a choice of keeping this horrible glass vase perfect, or I can smash it. Because I smash it, I'm building a new life. I'm living better like my dream and I'm influencing other people. Yes, there are consequences. And one of them, the smashing of the base mainly for me was leaving an abusive marriage. But as a result, I've been dealing with death threats from my own father for now 23 years. Oh, wow. Yes. And that's the story that my my brand is built on. there are consequences, but they should not stop us from questioning these horrible stories we've been taught. Maybe you were not told a vase story, but you were taught to act a certain way, to be accepted, to worry about being judged, not to make mistakes. And in order for us to evolve as women of color, we need to shatter these horrible vases. We need to question them and we need, we need, we cannot let them move forward because otherwise we would be passing them to the future generation. So keep breaking these horrible vases, keep challenging them and maybe if you're not ready to shatter a whole one, create a crack, create a crack. Eventually they will, they will, they, they're just not going to survive. Wow.

Deneen L Garrett:35:15 35:50 I absolutely love your story. Um, you know, sorry about where it came from, right? Your experience, but thankful that you are in a place to share it with other people with the intent of people living better lives. So thank you so very much. Wadima Gawi, thank you so much for joining today and having an intimate conversation with me. And yes, I'm looking forward to us going to Turkey. Yes, yes, next year. Thank you so much and enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you. I love talking with you. Oh, same here.

Dima Ghawi:35:51 35:51 Bye.