Hollywood’s Gatekeepers Are Changing ~ How Black Women Are Taking Over Media

Deneen L. Garrett:00:02 01:02
Hello, hello, everybody, and welcome back to Women of Color, an Intimate Conversation. The title of today's conversation is Hollywood's Gatekeepers are Changing. Are you ready? So today I'm excited to speak to someone who is a CEO and mom. Hollywood wasn't built for Black women to own their creativity, but today's guest, Ashley, is. making a difference in this space. So let's get into it with Ashley King, who isn't waiting for a seat at the table, she's building her own. With a 50,000 plus network, experience in casting, writing, and development, she's on a path to real power. If you've ever wondered how to disrupt the media industry and take control, this episode is for you. So Ashley, Hollywood wasn't made for us. At what point did you realize that if you wanted a seat at the table, you had to build your own?

Ashley King:01:06 01:49 No, I never really felt like it was for me anyway. I kind of came in knowing that I was going to get scraps and that if I ever wanted anything more, I would have to build it myself. So I came in already feeling like, I know I'm gonna get like breadcrumbs here. So I'm just gonna take the experiences that I can get, make the connections that I can make and what I wanna build is gonna be my own thing. And one of the people who I saw do that, like as I was kind of rising in the industry and in my career was Issa Rae. She was a perfect example of someone who made her own opportunities. So I already kind of knew that I was gonna have to do that as well.

Deneen L. Garrett:01:50 02:59 Yeah, and we are gonna talk a little bit about Issa a little bit later, but absolutely, she's one who continues to push the needle. Like every time I look on social media, she's starting some new business. And I absolutely love everything about it because when I'm reading that, you know, this new venture she started, I'm thinking back to Awkward Black Girl. and how far she's come. And we've only seen it, you know, we really, the majority of the people didn't really learn about Issa until Insecure, right? But she had been grinding, putting in the work for years prior to that. But again, so we're seeing it and it kind of looks like it's a short amount of time. It's really not. And then again, it kind of is compared to where she is, which is so beautiful. So we hear represent representation matters all the time, but that doesn't mean access you've worked across casting writing and development as I've already said so what are some of the real roadblocks that keep black women from truly owning their place in the industry.

Ashley King:03:01 04:08 Yeah, I think that the executives at the top, the current gatekeepers don't look like us. And a lot of the industry is like who you know. So, you know, you're most people surround themselves with like people who are like them, maybe people who are from the same place, grew up in similar, you know, type of upbringing. And so it really keeps outliers from getting very far because people want to if they have a job available they want to hire their friend or their friend's son not some random person that they don't know who yeah she says she has good ideas but yeah the ideas are good they're interesting they're a little bit different than also it's a different mindset so like a lot of times if you might see like a film and it'll feature like a conversation between black women and you're like this doesn't feel like how black women even talk like you know it's like a lot of times it's not even written by anyone black so i think that it's just an issue of like the people at the top don't look like us so they're not going to prioritize our presence most times on a team or in a room

Deneen L. Garrett:04:10 05:18 And while we're talking about, you know, experiences in Hollywood, if you will, these are the same experiences in corporate as well, because what you just said, like, oh, yeah, I've experienced that. I've talked to women in corporate who've experienced that. So for those who are listening or watching, while our conversation is based on entertainment, there's some similarities, things they apply, right? And exactly what you said, people wanna hire their friends, they wanna hire their friends' friends, you know, schools, they wanna accept people who legacy and all of those types of things. So none of this is specific to any space, right? Across the board as it relates to black people and other people of color. So you said you walked into what you were doing, knowing the industry, knowing what it was, right? But was there anything, like, have you had an experience that really crystallized for you that, you know what, this really is not built for Black women to win?

Ashley King:05:24 06:53 a specific experience? Well, okay, I can say the opposite. So getting my foot in the door in casting, like after my first job, I started working in reality TV. And the way the way that you get a job in reality TV doing casting is like they'll post a job in like a group on certain websites and you reach out. And then a lot of times you can get the job just from talking on the phone. There's no video interview a lot of times. So I had the realization recently that I think I've made it so far because there wasn't a lot of opportunities for people to discriminate against me. Like my name is Ashley Wilson. I don't think by talking to me over the phone, they could figure it out. So I've noticed that when a video interview is a part of the process, That's when I get some friction. That's when people go from, oh, we're excited to work with you, let's just do a video call, then after that it's crickets. But when it's just a phone call, it goes really, really smoothly. So that's how I know I'm like, oh, like my area of casting, it kind of is good for us because we can secure a lot of things over the phone. But the more that things change and evolve, and it's more about like in-person jobs, because a lot of the jobs are becoming in-person now, even though they weren't before COVID. but the more it becomes in-person and the more it becomes like, oh, we want to do a Zoom interview. That's when things start to get a little bit tricky because now they can see you and they're like, oh, you're a black Ashley Wilson. Got it. We're going to talk to a few more people. Yeah. Yeah.

Deneen L. Garrett:06:54 07:07 Wow. So this is something that you are currently experiencing, right? So you haven't figured a way around it yet. Otherwise, you know, other than hopefully it's not a Zoom. Hopefully it's still just a phone call.

Ashley King:07:09 07:14 There's kind of no way around it. Yeah. You just gotta hope they lock it in over the phone.

Deneen L. Garrett:07:15 07:31 Yeah. Now what about, okay, so some of the casting that you're doing, I know that you and I connected through LinkedIn because you have put something out. I think that you are casting for a new show. I believe it's Issa shows and it's something with dealing with relationships.

Ashley King:07:32 07:36 Yes. Yeah. Did you have another question or did you want to hear more about that one?

Deneen L. Garrett:07:37 08:00 Yeah, I definitely want to hear more about it. But what I was going to ask is, are you finding yourself in more spaces with people like us, right? Are you finding yourself in more spaces or having more opportunities with other ISAs? No. Nobody else is an ISA, but other Black women or other Black folks who are opening the door a bit for us.

Ashley King:08:02 08:42 I would say not really. I mean, I will say I did just also work on a Bravo show that's like heavily centered around like black women. Like Bravo kind of does that, you know, they have their housewives shows and things like that. They're sort of known for featuring a lot of like, black women and black people on the network. And then I think he says, show is just kind of like a random, like lucky, cool opportunity. Okay. It's not super common. It's not. And especially now with like, you know, the erasure of DEI and like, the movement is not in that direction at all.

Deneen L. Garrett:08:42 09:01 So I'm going to go back. I do want to hear more about the show, but you just said something. So And it's kind of happening now, but are you seeing more pushback or have you not even got to that place just yet? So with the erasure of DEI, have you seen more pushback?

Ashley King:09:03 10:17 It's hard to say. I'm not the one who's making the decisions. It feels like though that the only people who are going to prioritize working with like women of color, people of color, black people, the only people who are going to continue to prioritize that are people who always did and didn't need the DEI or didn't need to be pushed or have it promoted to them. Like I haven't seen like hardcore evidence that things are changing yet, but that's just my, kind of intuition on that is that it's probably not going to help. Yeah, and you know what, I was sorry. I was just gonna say there's also just a lot of people who are not working right now in the industry and so like going back to what we were talking about is like if you if your neighbor is, you know, works in the industry, but they don't have a job right now. And you have an opening, like, you're going to just try to get your neighbor in the door. You know what I mean? It goes back to that thing of like, who's in your network? Who's in your proximity? You're not really prioritizing opening the door for other people right now, because there's not a lot of opportunities right now. That's just kind of what's happening behind the scenes.

Deneen L. Garrett:10:18 11:19 Yeah. Yeah. And I love what you just said as far as, you know, the people who didn't need that push will likely continue to bring in black folks and people of color. And I feel the same way in corporate. Like when the administration was like, oh yeah, we're getting rid of DEI and then all these other people who, okay, you're not in the federal government, but now you're rolling back. Like you were waiting for this. Like you were like, oh yeah, because I didn't want to do it anyway. And was barely doing it, right? So thank you. But we're paying attention to all of that, right? And just like, you know, I'm sure people that you work with are paying attention to who's for you and who's not, right, as you move forward. Now, what about a net, and we still are going to go back to Issa, but it's just like kind of on a roll. But do you have a network that you're a part of, like you have a community of people that you're able to lean on?

Ashley King:11:20 12:18 I'm building that now. I've been someone who's super independent. I usually work alone, but now, just recently, I've realized how important it is to have community, to have mentors, to have partners. So I've been actively cultivating that now. So now I do have people that I can call and run an idea by or have a mentor that I speak to regularly about My next project that we're going to talk about and bringing that to life and I've been making a list of people who I can reach out to for consultation. I think that's going to be really big for me as I move into the next phase of my life as an entrepreneur and just as a, I guess, a person of Interest a figure in the industry like it's going to be important for me to have a network of my own, I go to versus me just like being the only I kind of operate like an island right now and then like I have a network of people. So now I'm creating that for myself.

Deneen L. Garrett:12:18 13:44 Yeah, no, and that is so important. And so, you know, we're talking about ESA. And I remember a few years ago, it might even been during COVID, so the summer of 2020, you know, walking and listening to YouTube. And she had this series on, I think it was about Hooray, her company Hooray. And her president of Hooray was talking about just that, get your circle of people, right? You need a team of people, right? You know, you need a support system. You need to connect with other people who are doing what you're doing. Like, don't go it alone. Cause like, like you said, me, I've always been on an Island, like even in a corporate space, like I live in Detroit, the headquarters for my company was in Dallas. And so, although there are people in Detroit as well, nobody was really like in my area, the department that I worked in. And so I was always on the outside doing things to get noticed, if you will, which actually helped me, right? Because you have to work harder or you have to do out of box and different and interesting things to get noticed when you are on an island by yourself. And so that definitely helped me when I retired and moving in other spaces. But let's go back to the talk show. So where are we with that? How is that going? Not the talk show, but the reality.

Ashley King:13:45 14:22 Okay, I think what I can say is it's a competition show for couples with a major streamer. And we wrapped casting a couple of weeks ago, but they were looking for couples who were like together for a few years, ideally, and were willing to kind of test the strength of their relationship through different challenges. What the challenges are, we don't know, but it sounds like when the couples get there, They are presented with like opportunities to test their relationship. And then the couple that wins would win a prize. Okay.

Deneen L. Garrett:14:22 14:29 All right. So you're done with casting. You're not looking for more people. Actually the show has wrapped. So you definitely.

Ashley King:14:29 14:36 Well, the show hasn't wrapped, but casting that round of casting round, there could be another round, but right now we're at.

Deneen L. Garrett:14:37 14:51 Got it, got it, got it. And then I think you were also, and you just mentioned Bravo, but I think, is there another show that you sent out looking for cast members, or was it the Bravo show?

Ashley King:14:51 15:04 It was the Bravo show, yep. Looking for black medical professionals, yeah. And how's that going? It's good. I just wrapped that one as well, like two weeks ago. Yay.

Deneen L. Garrett:15:06 15:08 Yeah, you good stuff.

Ashley King:15:09 15:48 What other exciting things do you have going on? So right now, I'm actually in the process of shooting a reality show for creators. This is my first time producing a show outside of graduate school. So, you know, I like we were talking about, I have a great partner, who's going to be basically doing a lot of the legwork and kind of helping me go from point A to point Z with this, but this is my whole idea that I've come up with. So again, it's a reality show for creators. And the reason that I'm shooting this is because it's going to be a part of the launch of my streaming platform.

Deneen L. Garrett:15:48 15:49 Okay.

Ashley King:15:49 16:07 So I'm creating a streaming platform called Water and it's a network for creator content. A lot of the content will be reality show unscripted, but it'll also be some scripted content as well. And so one of the first pieces of original content that will be on the platform is this show.

Deneen L. Garrett:16:08 17:28 I love that. So yeah, you're building your own. Yeah, yeah. You walked into a space knowing what it was, right, knowing that it was not created for you, it was not created for us, and you took what you needed from it, you're taking what you need from it, which is also lessons for those that are in corporate or other spaces, like whatever space you're in, get what you need for yourself. Like I tell people, And even the last year before I retired, I said, I would tell people, I said, look, you need to figure out what it is that you want for yourself. And then say yes to things that get you there and say no to things that don't. Right. Otherwise, you know, you're being stretched, you're put in all different, you know, spaces and you're not getting to where it is that you want to be. And even When I comment on, let's say on LinkedIn, I'm commenting on posts. I'm like, look, it's about you. And if you're not getting what you need, where you are, then you need to start thinking about some things. But I'm like, when they come to you and say, oh, would you do this for me? Here's this project. Does it align with your vision for yourself? If it doesn't, then don't do it. Because look, they're not loyal. Yeah, they don't care about us as individuals. So you have to care about yourself and make sure you're getting what it is that you need and want.

Ashley King:17:28 18:53 That's so true. I had an experience recently where I was brought on to do some like temporary work for a media company and they ended up wanting me to work on a political campaign, like a political topic. And they were on one side of the argument, I guess you could say. And my personal beliefs and opinions were on the other side. And it was, it was like, first of all, I was kind of upset that they didn't ask me before I said yes to work with them, because they were having me work on several projects. And I think that it would have been good for them to like, tell me specifically like, about this one, because it's a very like hot topic. It's very controversial a lot of people have like strong opinions about it and I just was uncomfortable with the fact that they didn't even tell me about it they just brought me on and threw it in my face and was like yeah you're going to work on this and I was like, I'm not, you know, just, it was, it was a tough call because sure I could have went along with it, but I think in the long run for me, I wouldn't have felt comfortable. It would have been something that I didn't put on my portfolio. I would have felt ashamed of it, you know, and have it brought up later down the line. Like I was just like, I can't, I can't be a part of it. So you're right. You have to be aligned with the work that you're doing. And sometimes that requires saying no and walk away.

Deneen L. Garrett:18:54 19:27 Yes, and it, you know, and it often does and then being okay with it. Yeah, because of everything that you just said right you wouldn't feel good doing it in the long run, like you know someone's taking a screenshot or whatever and it's going to be posted somewhere and it's like oh my god Ashley you did that. You were associated with that like oh my God. So now, now you have to be real clear about things and what you're saying yes to. So let's get into you talking about your 50,000 plus network. So what is that what is that all about.

Ashley King:19:27 21:48 Okay. So when I first started working in casting, I was in graduate school and I found pretty much the only production company in Maryland, which is where I'm from. And I asked them if they were hiring and they were like, no, but we do this program where you can be like an intern for six weeks. And if we like you, we'll offer you whatever job we have. Okay. So I did the internship. They like me. The job they had was casting. So I took it. And when I started, they wanted me. I was casting like, you know, like the crime shows, like one of them was like Southern Fried Homicide or like For My Man on TV one where it's like somebody commits a crime and then reenactment. So I was casting like the actors and stuff. So they would just like. Show me the list of people I need to cast and they would just hand me stacks of headshots so just a piece of paper with a picture and a resume on the back and I was supposed to go through every picture and match it up with the cast and call the agents and it was just like this gonna take me weeks and I didn't have weeks I would have like a couple of days. So I started immediately thinking about like, how can I make this process better? It was like 2015, but I was like, this doesn't make sense for 2015. Like we got to use some type of technology, something. So I started an email list. I started just putting everybody's email together and put it in an email list. And I would just email all the opportunities that I had or all the roles available. And then the people would get back to me or their agents would get back to me. So this was when I first started, it was beyond TV DMV, because it's DC, Maryland, Virginia. And over the years it became beyond TV USA as I got the opportunity to work on like projects, you know nationwide and reality TV and stuff. And then, around like 2018 2019. I realized that there were more people who were just interested in being a content creator, being an influencer, or even just being a creative, being an artist, than people who wanted to act and model. So I changed the name to Digital Influence. And since then, it's really kind of been tailored. I still, of course, post like reality show opportunities, but it's been a little bit more tailored toward people who want to be influencers and content creators. And so, yeah, the list grew, obviously, from zero to there's like over 54,000 people on my email list now who get my emails. That's awesome.

Deneen L. Garrett:21:48 22:02 And the thing is, you were doing it at a time You know, like you've been doing it like 10 plus years like now you hear people say yeah make sure you have an email list. Yeah, you really rely on social media and whatnot but been there done that right.

Ashley King:22:02 22:47 Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny to like, just the ways that it's been helpful for me like It supplements my work because whenever I have a casting, I never have to start from scratch. I have a whole list of people who somebody is going to come through and probably be interested or be the right fit. So it's always good to have just that. for people who, it helps me, it's like a tool. And I've also created an app. So now it's available on the Apple App Store. It's called Digital Influence. And so now you can download the app and see opportunities there and get push notifications. So as soon as I post something, you could see on your phone, like, oh, there's a new job posting on Digital Influence. That's awesome.

Deneen L. Garrett:22:47 23:05 Okay, so we have the email list, we have the app. And then again, like I said, we were connected or through LinkedIn, because you were posting there. So are you finding that you're having to get a little creative, right? Even though you have the 50,000, you have, you know, the app, and so now you're tapping into social media?

Ashley King:23:07 23:31 it's all about creativity and resourcefulness and just finding a niche, finding a way in. Like sometimes, like with the Issa Rae thing, oh my gosh, like I was finding couples here and there, but because that post went viral, I had hundreds of people apply where like, I probably on my own probably could have had like maybe 75, 80, but I had like over 300 couples apply.

Deneen L. Garrett:23:31 23:31 Nice.

Ashley King:23:32 24:08 it's like you just never know what's going to be it's like hitting the jackpot you never know what it's going to be that just makes it because casting is all about outreach and getting the word out to as many people as possible and then you like screen to find the people who are the best fit so because i'll use social media i use my app and my email list i'll reach out to casting websites i'll sometimes i pick up the phone and i'll call like whatever it is i'm like making phone calls i'm trying to think how can i tap into this poor group of people so it's all about creativity and like being resourceful and not being set on any particular one way.

Deneen L. Garrett:24:09 24:19 No. Yeah. Now, are you able to measure like where do you think most of them came from? Like you're the couples. Is there any way that you can measure that?

Ashley King:24:21 25:01 Typically, I know where they came from. Yeah, well, when I use like different websites, usually they have like a built in application. So I know, you know, I have to get on the website to see them. With my email list, I usually start with that. So I know within the first three, four days, those are all my people, the first people who come through. And then when I start posting in other places, like for example, That one, I posted on Instagram, but I have a small private Instagram following. So then I post it on LinkedIn and it gets a bunch of views and comments. Then I'm like, oh, most of these people came from LinkedIn.

Deneen L. Garrett:25:01 25:43 OK. Yeah, because I took it and I posted it. I shared it on threads. I may have also reposted it on LinkedIn. Yeah. Look, we have to have each other's back, OK? It's us, right? We have to have each other's back, especially now, right? We started the conversation talking about community and how you're building your community, you're building a space for creatives. Like there's a reason why you're doing that and why there's a need for that. Like that is definitely the time that we're in right now, right? So in our lifetime, I would say now it's probably the most important time for us to be in community. And with other people.

Ashley King:25:44 25:44 Yeah.

Deneen L. Garrett:25:44 26:18 So, you know, you kind of talked about as far as, you know, again, going into the industry, knowing, you know, that it was not built for you having experiences. So, whereas you have better success when it's not a video and just all of those different things. Was there one specific moment that you said, I'm done waiting for these jesters, and I'm just going to go ahead and take control of my own creative future? Was there one moment that was like, OK, time out?

Ashley King:26:23 27:26 one particular moment? I don't think that there was one particular moment. You know, when I went to graduate school and I learned that all of the areas of production that I was interested in are pre-production. So that's development, which is brainstorming the idea, which is probably the thing that I love to do most. And then writing, which I also love, and casting. That's all part of what happens before you start filming anything. So I was like, oh, that's exactly the stuff that I love so I think because I'm from Maryland and I just I always felt like an outsider probably because I'm like I'm all the way in Maryland and so it never felt like the door was ever open to me for me to begin with you know what I'm saying so I was never waiting for a yes like nobody even ever asked me a question you know what I mean like it was just like but I that's not gonna stop me because I know I want to make some stuff I want to create some stuff and I'm going to So that's just kind of how I feel about and how I approach it.

Deneen L. Garrett:27:27 28:10 And, you know, and just, you know, through this conversation, that's just a sense that I had anyway. Right. And that's why I kind of framed it that way, because just talking, everything you said, you're just like, okay, I'm just now moving here and moving there. So on and so forth. Like I walked in the door knowing, you know, that it was not open to me. So, you know, a lot of, you know, I'm just going to move around and I'm going to see, okay, you know, what am I going to leverage and, and make things happen for myself. So, you know, other people, a lot of people talk about wanting ownership, but you actually make that jump. What would you say is the hardest part right now about you going to the next level, to the next level that you're going and building your own streaming?

Ashley King:28:11 29:23 Yeah, I mean, I think that this is something that requires just knowledge and experiences that I don't have yet. Everything else that I've done has just been like building on what I've already done. And this is something completely new. Using some of the talent and skills and passions that I have, but I've never built a streaming platform. I haven't actually gone out and filmed anything. I haven't, fundraised before, you know, so that's why we are talking about building on my network and building on my community now. That's why it's been such an important thing for me because I'm like, you know, I just was speaking to someone the other day, another Black woman entrepreneur, and she was telling me like how she's raised money and exited two companies already. And like just what she was talking to me about, I was like, wow, like, I don't even really know what that means. Like I can't even imagine that. And I'm glad, you know, so we've been talking and I'm just like, I'm realizing now how much I don't know. And it's not in a way to like discourage myself or stop me or slow down. It's just that I need to learn and continue to tap the shoulder of people who are interested in helping me and who have experiences that I don't have.

Deneen L. Garrett:29:23 31:36 Right, which is why you're building that right the community like that's a part of the community that you want to build that should be part of your focus as well, because you don't have to know everything you don't have to do everything. What you do is find those people who do now like right by those people who help you who compliment you who. have that expertise that you don't have, learn from them, make them part of your team, all of those things. Like we don't have to go it alone and we've done too much of that, right? As black women, we often do things on our own. I was just having a conversation with someone and saying how years ago I got checked by a team member because I didn't ask for help. And, you know, and I didn't trust people to come through. And I'm honestly, I'm not going to say that I fully trust today, It's something to work on, though. But we do have to, you have to step out of there, because otherwise, you're still going to be where you are if you don't step out and ask for help. Now, are you familiar with Arlen Hamilton? The name? Sounds familiar. OK, so Arlen, she is VC. She's in venture capital, black woman. Um, and she's definitely a person who's disrupted that space because she is black. She's a woman. She's lesbian. Um, she does not have a college degree and yet she entered that space. And when she talks a lot about her relationship with Mark Cuban, so she was able to impress Mark Cuban to invest in her. And so they have a relationship, but she's huge in the VC space. So you probably check her out. She's also written a couple books. Um, the first one is about damn time. which I absolutely loved. And she wrote another one and I can't think of the name of that one, but she's definitely one, as far as VC, like wanting to kind of like learn more about VC, she's definitely one to kind of, you know, look at. Okay, thank you. You're very welcome. As a matter of fact, she had, oh, the second book is, Your First Million. And so she had a live event last year and Issa was one of the, one of the persons that she had a one-on-one conversation with.

Ashley King:31:36 31:37 Amazing.

Deneen L. Garrett:31:38 34:29 Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Because I love Issa, right? Like, we can have a whole, like, while you're casting, I need you to cast for, um, I'm trying to, uh, have another, uh, episode of, um, Insecure low-key stalking. Because several years ago I had went to LA and I went to like all three, at the time it was only three, of Hilltop Coffees, Hilltop Cafe. I went to all three and I was doing a recording with a woman who worked at, at the time she worked at Warner Media. And so I was telling her about it and she was like, okay, kind of stalking, huh? And I'm like, yep. And she needs to run another episode. Let's have a bonus episode of low-key stalking. But yes, no, because I do, I admire her. I think definitely someone that women just in general, regardless of what it is that you're aspiring towards she's somebody to give you inspiration, because she put in the work like it's a it's a blueprint, if you will. Look at her she put into work and also you know I mentioned how doing a summer listening to YouTube. I had also learned that she had, I think it was two shows, web series before Awkward Black Girl. I heard that recently. Yeah. So it was like three before she even did Insecure. So one was Storm Diaries. I believe that was the first one. And then the second one was something with her, one of her brothers, then Awkward Black Girl and then Insecure. And then from there, like the floodgates were open, like, yes. When, you know, she wanted something, it was a yes. And with Issa, she brings others along. Like, I believe that when she had a contract with Warner Media, she was like, HBO Max specifically, I believe, she was like, yeah, and we need to have this percentage of black women or women of color, or, you know, so on and so forth. Like, she told them, like, this is what I expect. This is what I want. You want me? This is what comes along with that. And I think that as we get into positions of power, any position of power, we need to do those types of things, especially now. Because as you said, we kind of start earlier in the conversation. One, the spaces are not built for us already. And then two, now without that covering of DEI, we really have no one who's really checking for us or championing us. So we have to champion ourselves. 100%. Right. So this is kind of going back to, you know, the traditional gatekeepers that we were talking about that you mentioned. So how do you, how do platforms like digital influence accelerate that shift? How do we get past those traditional gatekeepers?

Ashley King:34:29 35:56 Yeah, well, whenever I'm on a project, I always am skewing towards Black people and other people of color. I mean, most of my email list has become largely people of color. And I'm like, I'm not exactly sure how that happened. I'm like, I can't really pinpoint a reason why. Other than, I mean, I started in the DMV. Some of my early projects maybe were tailored towards like, I did like some love and hip hop casting. So I'm like, maybe it just started out very black. I don't know. It's just still, it still interests me and intrigues me how like so much of my list is us. And there's definitely like all types of people. And I have people from like Australia and like Sweden on the list, but still it's just like a lot of black people, a lot of brown people. it's really interesting to me. And so whenever I am casting, I always skew that way. Even if it's something that I have to go out and search for, like if I'm working on a brand campaign and they want me to go out and find creators who fit certain parameters, I'm still looking for people of color. I'm still looking for black people. So I'm always leaning, I'm always pushing everything in that direction anyway. And so that's how I sort of nudge things in that direction. And when I do get, You know brought on to a project they know that like they bring me on knowing that like i'm going to find that yeah so that's how I play my role.

Deneen L. Garrett:35:57 36:07 Oh love that so basically is like Ashley is synonymous with you don't get some black folks. You know, if you brought me on, then you already know.

Ashley King:36:07 36:07 yeah.

Deneen L. Garrett:36:08 36:28 Yeah, they should know. They definitely should know. Right. OK, so we're down to our last couple of minutes. So I'm just thinking about Issa Rae or Ava DuVernay, right, who've taken ownership of their creative vision. What's one lesson from their success that you've applied to or are applying to your journey?

Ashley King:36:30 37:10 I think. what we were talking about with Issa and how she never waited for the opportunity. She never waited for the door to open. She never waited for anyone to ask her. She never waited for permission to get started. She just started. And so I think that's been the way I've approached my career. I'm just starting. I don't need to ask anybody. I don't need anybody to validate my experiences or my career or my talent or anything. I just am just doing what I want to do. And that's been kind of the blueprint for how I've followed in my own path as well.

Deneen L. Garrett:37:11 37:37 I love that. And that's a mic drop right there, right? Don't wait for permission. Do what you do. Do what you want to do. You don't need validation. Just go ahead. And like Nike said, just do it, right? Yeah. So just a, you know, brief recap of your journey. So Ashley shift from insider to disruptor to creator now to platform builder with that pretty much sum up your journey.

Ashley King:37:39 37:53 I think so. I came in just being curious and now I'm sourcing the curiosity of other people. Now I wanna see what other creators can come up with and I wanna help them develop their own original content.

Deneen L. Garrett:37:54 38:14 I love that. So Ashley King, thank you so much for lending your voice on women of color and intimate conversation. And just know those who are watching or listening, her contact information will be in the show notes. So thank you all for, again, watching or listening and actually enjoy the rest of your day. You too. Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Bye. Bye.